LOUISVILLE, Ky. — A University of Louisville department leader is offering his viewpoint following the hour-long audio recording released by former Papa Johns CEO John Schnatter.

In a role playing exercise between Papa John’s executives and public relations firm Laundry Service, a newly unsealed recording features discussions catching Schnatter in a way that might portray him being racist. 

Rick Jones, University of Louisville's Pan African American Studies Department Chair told Spectrum News 1," these are white people talking to another white person making decisions on what is racist and what is not without a black person who is in touch with black culture."

"I’ve never been of the opinion of conclusively saying that John Schnatter is an outright racist. I’ve never made that argument. I think he’s racially insensitive, but I think there’s a lot of white Americans who are racially insensitive," Jones said.

Schnatter left the pizza empire in 2018 amid backlash over his use of a racial slur during the infamous conference call. The call was meant to help coach the former CEO avoid controversial remarks.

Click here if you would like to listen to the hour long audio from the call, along with the transcript.

"What I picked up from Schnatter in that instance was, 'Here’s what Colonel Sanders did, this is not have what I’ve done. So it seems to me that we're functioning in a place where I’m not sure what the standards are.' I thought he was asking a question in that," Jones said.

In response to the phone recording, Jones listened to the nearly 12 minute audio tape highlights and condemned Schnatter’s remarks.

"I’m not here to exonerate John Schnatter on anything that he’s done because I think that he’s had views before that interview that were politically detached, historically detached, and racially insensitive," Jones said.

The education leader believes the recording and remarks exchanged between both Schnatter and the public relations personnel indicates clear betrayal.

"Neither then nor now am I willing to outright say this man is a racist, but clearly the folks involved in that interview, they went in, he had preconceived notions about them and they had preconceived notions about him. So there were no friends on that call," Jones said.

That’s why the former Papa John’s CEO said that evidence reveals in his lawsuit proves he’s not a racist. 

"If he’s making an argument that he was misinterpreted and miscast on that interview because things were lifted out of context that’s a different argument," Jones added.

Overall, Jones said this recent conversation is another example of problems that are firmly entrenched in our society.

"John Schnatter is just a test case," Jones said. "He’s just an example of the problems we have, but in the grand scheme of things, on the great racial landscape of America, he’s not even a blip."