CINCINNATI, OH — Ahead of Election Day, Representative Steve Chabot (R, 1st Congressional District) spoke exclusively with Spectrum Washington bureau reporter Taylor Popielarz about his race against Democrat Kate Schroder.
You can watch the full, uncut conversation above or read the full transcript below.
And you can watch the full report on the race in the 1st Congressional District by clicking here.
Taylor Popielarz: I want to start off with kind of a basic question just as we're about a month out from the race. You've been in Congress now for a while, for 24 years. Why do you want to stay in this job for another cycle?
Rep. Steve Chabot: Well, this is a position where you can actually deliver results for the people you represent. That's something that I've always done. And the most important thing to me is make sure that the people that I represent are treated to the best from myself and from the government. For example, we received more funding through the PPP program than any other congressional district in Ohio. And most importantly, more jobs were saved than any other district. We saved over a quarter of a million jobs right here in the greater Cincinnati area. So it makes all the stuff you have to go through really worth it when you can serve the public.
Taylor Popielarz: I'm curious — I’ve been covering Congress now for just about two and a half years, so just a portion of how long you've been there, but seniority plays a big role in the impact you could have in Congress. But you're also right now in the minority. I guess, do you feel like you're kind of on top of your game in terms of the impact you're having? Or was it just so much easier when you were in the majority?
Rep. Steve Chabot: Well, fortunately, I've always worked in a very bipartisan manner. Even though I'm a Republican, I work with the Democrats. The chairwoman of the Small Business Committee and I have a great working relationship, and so we get things done. In fact, they've done a study twice now on members of Congress and their effectiveness. University of Virginia and Vanderbilt. I've come in the top 5% of effective members of Congress — I came in sixth and ninth out of hundreds of members of Congress. So we're delivering results for the people I represent. You don't have to be in the majority, although it would be helpful. And I'd like to be in the majority again.
Taylor Popielarz: I bet. I think one of the most interesting things about your story and your career in Congress is that you actually lost back in 2008 after serving for a while, and then managed to regain your seat. This time around, have you thought about, just because you are older, you have been in Congress for so long, if you aren't successful this November, do you think you'll retire? Or do you think you'll try again in 2022?
Rep. Steve Chabot: Well, I'm not planning on losing. I’m doing everything possible to make sure that I can continue to serve the people that I have the honor to represent here in the first congressional district. So I mean, I’ll cross that bridge when I come to it, but I expect to win. Although nothing is for sure in politics. That's for sure that nothing is for sure.
Taylor Popielarz: Yeah, especially in 2020. Do you feel like, I guess right now, because things are so divided in D.C.,in your tenure there — are you fed up with the state of things? Is it kind of the worst it's been in your time? Or have you seen kind of worse times in terms of Congress' productivity and the ability for members across party lines to work together?
Rep. Steve Chabot: Well, there's certainly a lot to be discouraged about. But I'm optimistic by nature. And so I always stay focused on trying to help the people that I represent to the best of my ability. And that's why we've been so successful. I just don't let the little things get you down, or even the big things. I focus on helping and serving the people that I represent. And that's what I'm going to continue to do.
Taylor Popielarz: I want to dive into policy a bit. A pillar of your campaign is fiscal responsibility. I was looking over your campaign website, and it literally says you are "voting consistently to eliminate wasteful spending and reduce the excessive tax burden on hardworking Americans.” And we've talked about similar things on the Hill. I was looking back at after your party got their tax plan through in 2017, there was a report by the Congressional Research Service in May 2019, so two years after the fact, and it talked about how the various analyses that they did — it said “suggested that the tax revision favored higher income taxpayers in part because most of the tax cut benefited corporations, and in part because the individual income tax cut largely went to higher income individuals.” And it also talked about how various worker bonuses, while a lot of companies did them, when you averaged it out among all workers in the country, it came out to only $28 per worker, and that, “much of these funds had been used for a record breaking amount of stock buybacks.” And then separately, pre-COVID, because this year has been its own animal, the federal deficit last year in 2019, was $984 billion; the year before that it was $779 billion; and the year before that, it was $666 billion; which I'm sure you know. So it's been going up. So based off of those facts, why should voters keep you in office if government spending is continuously going up? And if the tax burden really hasn't been lifted for lower and middle income workers?
Rep. Steve Chabot: Well, there are a lot of studies out there and the studies that I've seen confirm that most people got their taxes cut — about 85% of the public had their taxes reduced. For example, the average family in my district here in the greater Cincinnati area had their taxes reduced by $2,400 per year. And that's real money. $2,400 dollars means putting clothes out there for your kids if they're going back to school, maybe a vacation, maybe being able to put down a down payment on a car. So it was real money. And I would much rather have the people spending their own money than the government, they're just much more efficient about it. Relative to the debt, yes, the debt is far too high. It's up in the $23 trillion range. And because of COVID, it's probably going to go up. That's why I've introduced a balanced budget amendment, again, this Congress. I’m one that really does believe in balanced budget and fighting for those things, trying to make sure we don't spend more than we have. That's a reason that Citizens Against Government Waste, for example, consistently gives me the top scores, if not the very top score, one of the top five or so members of Congress for voting against what they consider to be wasteful spending. So the spending is far too high. It was too high under Republican control. Under Democratic control in the House, it's gotten completely out of whack. And we need to be serious about it because that money belongs to the public. And it means our kids and our grandkids will ultimately foot the bill for that.
Taylor Popielarz: As you look back at the first couple of years of tax reform since your party was able to get it passed, do you think corporations got off with too much compared to an everyday American?
Rep. Steve Chabot: The corporate community did get their taxes reduced. So did small businesses and so did individuals. So it was important to do it across the board and that's what we did. Was it perfect? No, no bill ever is. There's always compromise in those bills. I didn't get to write, word for word, what I wanted to have in there. But overall, it was important legislation. Virtually all the Republicans voted for it and no Democrats voted for it, unfortunately. And that's one of the problems with Washington, you really ought to have bipartisanship. And that's something that I've always done. Whenever I introduce a bill, I almost always get a Democratic cosponsor. And that's one of the reasons I've been one of the most effective members of Congress because I work in a bipartisan manner.
Taylor Popielarz: Beyond fiscal responsibility, would you say, because I know in our previous conversations we’ve talked a lot about infrastructure and the Brent Spence Bridge, is that kind of the number two policy initiative and goal for you when you're on the Hill right now?
Rep. Steve Chabot: Well, it's way up there. Our infrastructure is crumbling here. In our community, for example, the Brent Spence Bridge needs to be replaced. The Western Hills Viaduct that comes over here to the west side where you are now, that needs to be replaced as well. And we’ve fought for [inaudible] grants, we’ve fought for transportation grants for our community. And so the infrastructure needs to be improved. I voted for it in the past. And I'll continue to do so in the future.
Taylor Popielarz: On the political side of things, I've wanted to ask you for a while now about the situation with your former campaign manager, Jamie Schwartz. I know it's been covered a lot. I guess what, on your end, do you know is kind of the latest information about that case? Because I saw the letter that your campaign put out from the FBI. I know, the FBI basically said you're exonerated. What can you tell people about what you know, because I think voters still look at it and say, how can $100,000+ disappear from your campaign and you as the face of it not be aware of it?
Rep. Steve Chabot: Yeah, well I was a victim of a crime. I trusted somebody who at some point turned out not to be trustworthy, and he stole money from us. And he's going to go to jail for that. The FBI couldn't have been more crystal clear that I was a victim. That hasn't stopped my opponent from trying to score political points with this. And she had to take down her first ad because it was such a lie. And basically, what they did is replace that with more lies, just using different words. So they've tried to, you know, make political gain out of this, which is unfortunate. One should not do that to a victim of crime. But we put into effect, I got an entirely new campaign team, a new treasurer. We're making sure that nothing like this ever happens in the future. But I wouldn't want my worst enemy to go through what we've had to go through.
Taylor Popielarz: Obviously, it's an unfortunate incident. Did it make you question your leadership of this team? Because I know you have an expansive team from the campaign staff to interns. I guess, did it kind of stop you in your tracks and say, did I overlook something or miss something?
Rep. Steve Chabot: Well, I would certainly encourage everyone to do everything possible to make sure you know what's going on. I trusted somebody who I'd known for a long time and he turned out to steal from us, skimmed funds for a number of years. We have to do a forensic audit, which is expensive, to determine exactly how much was taken. Now COVID, unfortunately, has slowed down the FBI investigation. I wish this was completely behind us at this point. But my opponent has basically tried to distract attention from her record of mismanagement and scandal. She is the head of the finance committee of the Cincinnati Board of Health. And because of her mismanagement, they ran up a deficit of $2.7 million, which health care experts said hurt the city's pandemic response. She also was involved in a hiring scheme, which has cost thousands of taxpayer dollars. And then she politicized this whole thing. She wrote an op-ed to the Cincinnati Enquirer, scathing op-ed, trashing the president, trashing me. And it turned out that two days prior to the Enquirer publishing this, that they had their principal major meeting in deciding how the city was going to handle this pandemic, to make sure that citizens of Cincinnati were safe, and she skipped the meeting. So I think she ought to stay focused on her job, which she's done very poorly.
Taylor Popielarz: I did ask Kate Schroder when I interviewed her about that ad, and whether she regretted it or not. I'm interested with what you brought up about her, and I've seen some of your ads that you've run about everything you just laid out, I read a fact check article that the Enquirer had also published kind of going through the claims. And while some of the things that you're saying seem to be accurate, based off of that fact check, there were other aspects of it that when they went through the list — I’ll look at one: That a health department spokesperson said the $2.7 million shortfall wasn't the result of mismanagement and the budget ended up being balanced; that Schroder did raise concerns about the hiring of Ronald Robinson as finance director, but she did ultimately approve his hiring; but then the AFSCME union, they called your ad about this incident a lie. And they said that Kate Schroder said she didn't play a role in changing Health Commissioner Melba Moore's role, and that she had only missed two of the 11 board meetings since August of last year. So I guess my question is, we don't have to nitpick through everything, but doesn't that show voters that if you're accusing her campaign of spreading falsehoods or maybe exaggerating things, that maybe your campaigns hands are just as dirty?
Rep. Steve Chabot: No, that's not the only thing that she's done wrong or that I think the reason people ought to be very suspect of her. She also has very dangerous policies, for example, relative to the police and trying to keep this community safe. She wants to do away with cash bail, which would put more criminals on the street. She would not stand up to the folks who wanted to defund the police department here. I'm endorsed by the FOP, I'm endorsed by the Democratic sheriff here. So she basically is, her policies, put the citizens of this community in a position [where] they’re going to be less safe. She also supported the Democrats’ bill, after the unrest that we saw across the country, that would have done away with qualified immunity. Now, what is qualified immunity? That means that police officers, in their everyday jobs, could be sued for virtually every action that they would take —sued personally. What person is going to want to be a policeman if every time they're involved in anything, I'm not talking about major things like shootings, but just some kind of confrontation, separating people in a domestic relations thing, arresting somebody for a DUI, if your family's home, your retirement accounts, your savings is up for grabs by lawsuits, you're not going to have quality people that want to go into police like they do now. So really dangerous policies that she is suppressing that undermine the police department. And she also supports radical ideas like the Green New Deal, which would basically do a number of things which are so out there. Once people know about this, very few people would support it. A guaranteed income for people who refuse to work, doing away with private health care altogether, essentially making illegal the internal combustion engine, which means no cars, no planes, no meat, no jobs. I mean, just radical, radical policies. And not only does she endorse it, but she said nothing else matters. So I mean, think of what doesn't matter in her mind, other than this radical left wing agenda. Our health care, Social Security, our national defense, none of that matters compared to this Green New Deal. So she's way on the left. And I think really dangerous policies that would be bad not only for this district, but for the country.
Taylor Popielarz: I look forward to seeing you both debate in the coming weeks. Just lastly, on the ads, like I asked her, with the ads that you've published that go after her specifically this cycle, do you regret any of them, especially those that maybe weren't fully accurate?
Rep. Steve Chabot: Absolutely not. Our ads are truthful and tell the truth and her ads have been for the most part, not only inaccurate, but defame my character. We filed a lawsuit against her, that’s how far they've gone. I've been in politics for quite some time now, as she likes to remind people in the community. I think that experience is a good thing. That's how I was able to be in a position to craft and pass and implement the paycheck Protection Program, which saved so many jobs here. So experience can be a good thing. But in all that time, I've never had to sue an opponent for defamation, for basically calling you a criminal. And that's what she's done.
Taylor Popielarz: Two more topics real quick. I was reading a recent analysis that Howard Wilkinson from WVXU, I'm sure you know him, published recently. And he said that speaking of this race, he said, “The fact that it is a very competitive race this year is due to one of two things, the Hamilton County portion of the district is becoming more and more blue all the time, or Warren County, a traditional GOP stronghold is getting purple around the edges. Or maybe both are true.” Now there's a big focus nationally, and I know you know this, that the idea that especially in more suburban districts, suburban voters may be fed up with President Trump or may be exhausted over kind of everything that's been going on the last four years, and that they may be inclined to drift toward Joe Biden, even if they don't fully agree with his policy platform. Because you've held this seat for so long. I'm curious if you've noticed any of that? Or if you think that's just completely incorrect analysis?
Rep. Steve Chabot: Yeah, I just don't focus any time or attention on if things are trending more Democratic or trending more Republican. The one thing I can control is doing the best I can to represent the people that I have the honor of representing. Making sure that the economy is such that they've got a chance at a job. And if they work for a small business, which about half of them do, make sure that business has a chance to stay in business. And that's why I fought for the PPP program. That's why right now I'm fighting with Nancy Pelosi to get a vote to get a second round of PPP loans. That's why we filed the discharge petition, to try to get Pelosi to go — it hasn't worked yet, but we're gonna keep fighting. The people that I represent are worth fighting for.
Taylor Popielarz: Because you've been a pretty, I would say, staunch defender of President Trump and his agenda throughout the last four years. I'm curious what you say to constituents you may encounter when you're handing out cups or going to various events, who come up to you and say, you know, even if I agree with him policy-wise, I'm frustrated by the scandals, or I'm frustrated with how the pandemic has been handled with over 200,000 Americans dead. And I guess, what do you say to them in terms of why you continue to justify your support for him despite kind of those constant tornadoes?
Rep. Steve Chabot: Well, for the most part, I think the president is right on his policies. His policies are lower taxes, let people keep more of their own money — they know how to spend their money better than the government does, more efficiently than the government does. We need to improve our trade deals, we need to make sure that people have good health care, that seniors have Social Security that's going to be there for them when they retire. So in general, I support his policies, I don't always support the way he says things. Here in Cincinnati, we tend to be pretty polite. We try not to be rude to people. That debate was, you know, kind of a dumpster fire, I think on both sides. the president maybe interrupted more. Joe Biden called the president a lot more names, you know, called him a clown and said he was a racist, and all that kind of stuff, told him to shut up. So I thought there was a lot of rudeness on both sides. I think people ought to be a little more polite. And I would like the president to do that. I probably wish he tweeted a little less. But ultimately, he's the president, I’m a member of Congress, and we both have different jobs. But we can still work together. So mostly on policy, I agree with him. His demeanor is not my demeanor.
Taylor Popielarz: Has there been a point in his first term where you've had to question your support for him?
Rep. Steve Chabot: Nothing comes to mind. I could think about that. And maybe there would be some things. I mean, they bring up the stuff about, you know, white supremacy, for example, I think, you know, white supremacy is outrageous and should be condemned immediately. Now, so should ANTIFA on the left. And I know Joe Biden and a lot of the Democrats don't even want to acknowledge that it exists. ANTIFA is a real threat to this country. When you look at the unrest we've had in our cities, and we saw it here in Cincinnati as well, you basically have peaceful protesters during the daytime, in the early evening. We've seen this in Seattle, for example, in Portland and Minneapolis. They're followed up with the real bad guys, the people that are rioting and looting, and trying to tear the country down, trying to set a federal courthouse on fire, including the people in there, putting their lives at risk. So both sides should be condemned when they're outside the boundaries. And certainly any kind of white supremacy should be condemned, or whatever it's called, and so should groups on the left like ANTIFA, which are really a threat to the country.
Taylor Popielarz: Lastly, a lot of this — your race, because of Kate Schroder's background, has revolved around health care. And you know, she's obviously been in the health care industry for a long time, or in the health care world, I should say. I'm curious — I spoke with her earlier today. And she talked about how she's not gung-ho for Medicare for All, she's more so for building upon the Affordable Care Act, maybe starting a public option. And your party has said for the last few years that you want to repeal and replace Obamacare, you argue that it made premiums too high, that it didn't provide enough coverage for people, the ‘can't keep your doctor if you wanted to.’ Right now, the Trump administration, with the support of your party, as far as I know, is supporting a lawsuit in the Supreme Court that would do away with the Affordable Care Act in the middle of a pandemic. So I guess what do you say to people who look at what your opponent is saying about health care and say, why would we want to side with what you're saying when you're just arguing let's take it all away right now?
Rep. Steve Chabot: Well, she may believe that Obamacare is good enough. I think the American people and my constituents deserve better than Obamacare. And we voted for, I voted for and would have liked to have passed, the American Health Care Act, which was better. It would have cost people less, it was better delivery of services for them. And most importantly, it covered pre-existing conditions, something that Democrats have basically lied about for years now saying that we voted for something that would have taken away pre-existing conditions. That's just not true. They ran millions of dollars in ads, in my district and all over the country, saying that that was the case and it just wasn’t. People should have their pre-existing conditions covered. There were things in Obamacare that I would have voted for, but we didn't have an opportunity. It was either up and down on Obamacare. And so I think the American people deserve better.
Taylor Popielarz: Just one last point on the health care, the president actually — he tweeted this morning, he was tweeting many tweets in all caps while he's still at Walter Reed. And he said, “protect pre-existing conditions. Vote.” And I think he implied vote Republican. But right now, the fact of the matter is, is that your party hasn't offered an alternative to the Affordable Care Act. But you guys are still fighting for it to be repealed. So do you understand voters’ concerns when they say, well, you say you want to protect pre-existing conditions, but you're trying to take away protections for them right now without an alternative.
Rep. Steve Chabot: We do have an alternative. We voted for the American Health Care Act. If we're in the majority in the House, we’ll do it again. I hope that even that is improved, because that's a couple of years. The RSC came out with a health care plan just recently, it's a very full program that tells — so there are many programs that I would support. And I would have supported some of the things that were in Obamacare: allowing young people to stay on their parents’ health care till 26, protection of pre-existing condition coverage. So there are a lot of plans that I would definitely vote for, but there's better health care than Obamacare. We could have done those things without screwing up everybody else's health care. That's what Obamacare did. The American people deserve better.
Taylor Popielarz: And then last question for you. What's been the most surprising moment of this year's campaign?
Rep. Steve Chabot: Now, do you mean the presidential campaign?
Taylor Popielarz: No your race, your race.
Rep. Steve Chabot: My race? Probably how far into the gutter that the Democrats and my opponent have gone in essentially saying that I'm a criminal when I was a victim. That's beyond the pale as far as I'm concerned.
Taylor Popielarz: Anything else you want to add I haven't asked you about?
Rep. Steve Chabot: Nothing I can think of.
Taylor Popielarz: Alright. Thanks for letting me go a little longer.
Rep. Steve Chabot: That's all right.