LOUISVILLE, Ky. — This General Election, Kentucky voters will see Amendment 2 on their ballots. There’s been a lot of campaigning both for and against Amendment 2, but what exactly is it?
What is Amendment 2?
Kentucky voters will see the ballot question which asks in part, “the General Assembly may provide financial support for the education of students outside the system of common schools.”
Those in favor, who want voters to select “yes” on Amendment 2, say it provides parents more choice and greater educational opportunities for their students.
“It’s simple. Parents should have more choices on where to send their kids to school,” said Sen. Majority Floor Leader Damon Thayer, R-Georgetown.
Those against, who want voters to select “no” on Amendment 2, say it could send public funds to private schools, harming public education.
“What Amendment 2 would allow is Frankfort politicians to take money from public schools and send it to unaccountable private schools,” said Gov. Andy Beshear, D-Ky.
It’s important to note that Amendment 2 would not create policy. However, if passed, it could empower the General Assembly to craft legislation to fund the education of students outside the public school system.
Background
The move to bring this constitutional amendment before voters comes after courts struck down so-called school choice legislation in the past, ruling them unconstitutional.
One would have given private donors a tax credit for funding educational opportunity accounts that would have distributed grants to pay for educational expenses, including private schools.
The other would have established a funding mechanism for charter schools in the Commonwealth.
Courts ruled those violate the Kentucky Constitution, sparking the effort to amend it.
Gov. Beshear and Sen. Thayer weigh in
Spectrum News 1 anchor Amber Smith interviewed Beshear and for “Amendment 2: The Future of School Funding” special report. Gov. Beshear has been an outspoken opponent of Amendment 2. Sen. Thayer is in favor of it.
Both men were asked the same set of questions, giving voters an opportunity to learn about where the two sides stand, and make up their own conclusions before heading to the polls.
What do you see as the core issue behind Amendment 2?
Sen. Thayer: “It’s simple. Parents should have more choices on where to send their kids to school and in every other state that has offered school choice, which is, by the way, almost every other state, outcomes have gone up for students. Teacher pay has increased, and people feel like they’re getting more options for their kids’ education. Kentucky should have the same options that all our surrounding states, and most every other state in the country have.”
Gov. Beshear: “Well, what Amendment 2 would do is allow Frankfort politicians to take money from public schools and send it to unaccountable private schools. What it is, is a method of defunding our public schools that will leave them with less. That will mean the 90% of Kentucky’s children that are all at public schools will have fewer resources. In the end, if people believe that private schools with less regulation can do more, let’s put less regulation on our public schools. I’m a public school graduate. I believe in them, and I believe that if we would adequately fund them, if we provide teacher raises, if we put more resources into the classroom, then we would see better results from our public schools. The answer isn’t to abandon them. This is a money grab from corporations and others, and we can’t let it happen.”
How do you feel Amendment 2 would change the landscape of K-12 education in Kentucky?
Sen. Thayer: “It’s quite simple. Question two doesn’t make any changes. It just allows a future legislature to make changes. It doesn’t create any new policy that would affect public schools, but, if it does pass, I could see a future General Assembly passing laws like the ones we’ve already passed that the Supreme Court ruled unconstitutional, which is why we’re having a constitutional amendment so that those bills can pass muster. The most important thing to me would be low-income working parents would have choices on where to send their children to school that they don’t have today by setting up an educational opportunity scholarship tax credit. It’s quite simple and quite fair. There are, especially in the suburban areas, lots of private schools and, in all those places, low-income working parents don’t really have that opportunity. This could unlock that opportunity for them. Also, public charter schools, which are schools that are public and have a governance authority in place, they would be able to operate outside of the set of rigid rules that normal public schools operate under. There are a percentage of kids who would benefit for that from that. 95% of Kentucky kids are still going to go to public schools, but parents should have the options if they feel like it’s the right thing based on their set of core beliefs or perhaps their educational needs for their kids on where to send them to school.”
Gov. Beshear: “Well, it would significantly harm it. It would harm it in a couple of ways. First, most areas of Kentucky, eastern Kentucky and western Kentucky, don’t have private schools. What you’d see is money flowing out of those areas because there would be less overall and into the more urban areas into private schools. The other thing that it would do is, if it’s going to move money, even in an urban-to-urban area, it leaves the vast majority of our kids behind and under-funded. It is an existential threat to public education. Listen, most all of us grew up and went to Kentucky public schools. It’s as simple as saying we support them. We will fund them, and we will certainly not allow this amendment that will defund them. I know that there are folks out there that are saying, this amendment doesn’t directly defund public schools. Well, they tried it two sessions ago and failed because the Supreme Court said you have to change the Constitution. And a session ago, they tried it and failed because the Supreme Court said you [have] got to change the Constitution. So now what are they trying to do? Change the Constitution. It’s very clear what these groups are trying to do, and they’re not being honest about it either. Some of these mailers are saying voting yes will give me somehow more flexibility and more tools. I just want to be clear, I’m 100% opposed to Amendment 2. I know what it will do. It’ll hurt our children. It’ll hurt our school system, and ultimately, we’ve got to defeat it.”
The legislation does not create policy, but there are options that could provide a template for state lawmakers. Could you explain what you think those options look like?
Sen. Thayer: “You know, there are two school choice issues that we’ve already passed. The General Assembly passed them and the Supreme Court then said they weren’t constitutional, so the Supreme Court sent a pretty strong message to the General Assembly that we need to change the constitution, which is not an easy thing to do. It shouldn’t be easy to change the constitution. But this is an important issue, and it’s worth putting it on the ballot and letting people decide if it does pass future general assemblies. It might not be the one that convenes in January. It may take another year or two or three to sort of rally the troops and make the case all over again, but you would look at educational scholarship tax credits and public charter schools, the two bills that are already on the books here but have been struck down by the courts.”
Gov. Beshear: “They’ve already shown us, you know, they tried to pass what are essentially vouchers, where you could take money that’s headed toward public schools and take it to a private school, thus defunding that public school. Well, what happened is the Supreme Court said you can’t do that without changing the Constitution. And so that’s exactly what they’re doing. Listen, there is no question that this is on the ballot because, if it passes, the legislature will allow, again, those Frankfort politicians to take your taxpayer dollars from public schools and send them to unaccountable private schools. Trying to argue that that’s not going to happen is just not being honest and straightforward with people. Right now, we’ve got a great constitutional provision that says public dollars are spent on public schools, period. What that means is, is along with another case, we have an obligation to our public school system, and we could all just come together and make it the very best it could be. Make sure we get the teacher raises. You know, there are materials out there that try to suggest that if you vote yes for Amendment 2 and defund public schools, you’ll somehow give our teachers raises. It won’t happen. Let’s take that money and let’s make our public school system better.”
How do you believe Amendment 2 could impact public school funding and resources?
Sen. Thayer: “I don’t think it would impact public school funding or resources at all. Since Republicans took over supermajorities in both the House and the Senate with the 2016 election, the one consistent that we have done is fund education at record levels year over year over year. Every two-year budget cycle, we’re putting more and more money into public education. This is a very strong public education General Assembly, and I don’t see that changing.”
Gov. Beshear: “In the end, there’s only a certain amount of taxpayer dollars. If you take the amount that’s going into public schools and you take a portion of that and you send it to private schools, you end up with less. It is basic subtraction. For a General Assembly that won’t otherwise significantly increase funding, you’re not going to see it. I mean, as we see the income tax going down, that creates less revenue over time. We hope growth will make up for some of it, but if there are a finite amount of resources and you want to take some of the resources that go to public schools and send them to private, public schools have less money. We teach addition and subtraction in public schools. This is subtraction no matter how you look at it.”
Do you think Amendment 2 would increase or decrease educational opportunities for low-income Kentucky students?
Sen. Thayer: “I absolutely think it would increase educational opportunities for low-income Kentuckians. Right now, if you live in an area where there’s a private or a parochial school and you’re at a certain income level that preclude you from being able to afford it, you’re stuck with whatever local school your kid is district into for the duration of his or her career, but if you can apply and qualify for a scholarship tax credit, which is means based means which means it’s going to be means tested based on income, you could get a scholarship tax credit fund to send your child or children to a private or parochial school of your choice. It’s pretty simple, actually, and a pretty great opportunity for people of a certain income level who right now just can’t afford the expensive cost of sending their children to private schools.”
Gov. Beshear: “What we’ve seen in other states is this, this doesn’t help. You know, some states try to take lower performing students out of public schools, send them to a charter school that doesn’t have to test and then they claim test scores are going up in the state. Well, that’s just leaving those kids behind. In other states, this just gives money for families that they can already afford to have different options and thus less resources for those that don’t. I believe that most Kentuckians, you know, the 90% that go to Kentucky’s public schools, won’t see more options. They’ll just see less money.”
What would you say to parents who feel their public schools are not providing adequate options for their students and see Amendment 2 as a solution for greater choice?
Sen. Thayer: “I would say they should vote yes on issue two. If they aren’t happy with the options. First of all, you have to look at the test scores. I mean, our test scores are nothing to brag about in Kentucky. It’s been widely reported that, you know, at the third-grade level and at the eighth-grade level, where these kids are being tested, not enough of them, certainly not over 50% are even at the proficient, let alone distinguished level, which is at the very top. Yet we continue to put more, more, more money into in the public schools. And I don’t see that changing. But if there is a parent or parents out there who wish to have other options, a plan that maybe is more tailored to their students or an environment that’s more tailored to their children. Issue two could open up that possibility. Then they would have to lobby their local legislators to vote in favor of a scholarship tax credit bill in the future.”
Gov. Beshear: “We all want best for our children, but what’s best for all of our children and our children’s children and our children’s children is to have the very best system of public education that we can to step in and to fix it, to provide the funding where we can have more science teachers and more physics teachers. But if we don’t pay good enough wages, we’re not going to get sometimes the type of teachers or have the resources to change what we want to see change. This is our chance as a generation. Their chances as parents and Kentuckians for us to finally come to the table and move public education forward and not pass an amendment that I believe would be the death knell of public education in at least one state that I traveled to. This got passed there, and they’ve seen one school system entirely fold. Now it’s a smaller one, but still, that’s not something that we want to see. So if especially these independent school districts. My kids go to Frankfort. Independent school districts will have an enormous challenge if this passes.”
How would Amendment 2 affect rural communities where there aren’t as many private school options compared to urban areas?
Sen. Thayer: “Right now I would say that rural areas are the least likely to be affected. Most of the private schools are in the urban and suburban areas. However, that doesn’t mean that a private school wouldn’t consider opening up in rural areas in the future if they knew that they could attract some of these students who, right now, couldn’t afford it. I would say right now this is about kids in urban and suburban areas. Let’s face it, that’s where we’re having the most problem with these low test scores.”
Gov. Beshear: “It takes money away from those rural communities and sends them to urban communities. And it’s just going to further harm areas where we’re seeing the population. I mean, we’ve got such good things going on in our economy now. We’re bringing jobs to every single part of the state, and it’s the public school system with that great CTE program that we’ve put about $240 million into statewide. That right now attracts those employers when they say, where are our workers coming from, we can take them to the public school. That superintendent sits down with them. We show them the career path. We show them the graduation rates. And that is a big argument, a magnet to attract these businesses. Well, guess what? It’s going to take a lot of money that’s going right now into that CTE program and into that school and ship it somewhere else. I believe that we don’t have red counties or blue counties. We just have Kentucky counties with our families in it that deserve the best. If you live in a rural community, Amendment two is going to harm your community. It’s going to harm the opportunities that are there and it’s going to harm the education that your children are receiving.”
How should voters who are still undecided on Amendment 2 approach their decision? What factors should they consider?
Sen. Thayer: “I would urge them to drown out all the noise, especially from the opposition, because the opponents, the defenders of the status quo, are basically lying about what the bill would do. It’s a simple constitutional question. Do you want to give future general assemblies the ability to distribute funds to nonpublic schools outside the common schools? And even some of those could be public charter schools. So I would I would urge them to move past all the noise and the disinformation that the opponents are putting out there. They’re just flat out wrong. This argument that you can’t use public money for private schools is 100% wrong. We use public money for things like Pell grants and scholarships all the time. We use public dollars to fund scholarships called the Kentucky Tuition grants for kids to attend private college and colleges and universities in Kentucky. And those are just a couple of examples of how we use public money for private needs all the time, if it’s for the greater good. So this would be for the greater good. It’s not going to do the damage right away or long term that the opponents are saying. As a matter of fact, in the states that do have school choice, the results are better for teachers. They get paid more, and it’s better for students. And that’s what we should really be concerned with, because public schools are here to educate students and prepare them for the next stages of their lives, whatever those stages may be. This gives more opportunities and the results are better for kids.”
Gov. Beshear: “I was just talking yesterday with a voter who had finally decided that they were going to look at it getting really close to this election. And they came after just a little bit of research to a very strong opinion that they are firmly against it. After reading that, it would take, again, public tax dollars away from public schools and send them to unaccountable private schools was enough for them to say absolutely not. And they did it for a couple of reasons. Number one, this individual’s daughter goes to a public school. He didn’t want to see that money leave her education and go somewhere else. Number two, he knows a lot of public school educators. And when you look at our rural communities, that’s oftentimes the biggest single employer. You remove some of that money, you remove the ability to have that many employees potentially hurt job opportunities in that community. And just a little bit of research, if people go to trusted sources, maybe listen to the back and forth that you’re going to have here, then I think that they will very much see that the vote yes side in being honest. They’re trying to use my name. I’m against it. They’re trying to say it’ll increase teacher pay when it takes money out of the system that they’re talking about. I think they’ll see who’s being up front with them and who’s not. Then, if they don’t want to take my word for it, we trust our public school educators. We trust our superintendents. They are 100% against it. They just have a hard time talking about it right now because the legislature tried to pass laws that limit their speech and keep them from being able to tell you the harm it would do to their districts.”